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Thread: What's the best possible outcome you can get for the Mojave?

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    What's the best possible outcome you can get for the Mojave?

    Fallout: New Vegas has an ending composed of many endings to many different places. What would you consider, objectively, the best possible outcome for all of the Mojave? One where everyone's lives improves, and the Mojave doesn't look like it's doomed? I'm not just talking about the four endings, but also the combination of all endings for all settlements.

    Is it possible to achieve a "happy ending" for everyone? With the obvious exception of organisations like Fiends and Powder Gangers. I've never really finished Fallout: New Vegas more than once (all my other ten saves have never actually got to the Battle of Hoover Dam) so it would be nice to see people's different opinions on what a happy ending to the Mojave is to them.
    Last edited by ZigzagPX4; 01-02-2016 at 11:36 PM.
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    I think the best solution for the Mojave would be an independent victory that remains as amicable with the NCR as possible. Ideally Kimball and Oliver are shamed, but I think the ending where you don't turn in Hanlon and he goes back home to be the senator for Redding is probably what's best for the NCR, as Vegas should probably eventually join the NCR but the NCR needs to look inward and solve some of its problems through means that aren't expansion. Were Vegas to be annexed as part of a military action, I could imagine that being a continuing problem for years. But since the Mojave can supply much of the NCR with both power and water, the NCR has good reason to maintain friendly diplomatic relationships with a Vegas that wants to be friendly.

    Regarding the Legion, I think the best outcome would be whatever allows for the Legion to dissolve as quickly and peacefully as possible. It's essentially a cult of personality around a man who is not only not immortal, but is suffering from a brain tumor, and sustains itself by preventing its members from considering alternative ways of living which is only a temporary condition. So probably Caesar dead and Lanius dead, (with Joshua Graham convinced to show mercy after crushing the White Legs at the end of Honest Hearts and Ulysses spared at the end of Lonesome Road, as both could potentially show a better way to the shambles of the Legion.

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    Legion victory and domination. No more bandits, no more drugs and no more freedom.

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    Easy, it's Mr. House. Why? First, he's the only person with an actual, solid plan. He knows exactly where he wants to get, even if it takes a really long time, and has a complete understanding of what he needs to get there. He doesn't seek power or prestige for himself - "I have no interest in abusing others, just as I have no interest in legislating or otherwise dictating what people do in their private time. Nor have I any interest in being worshiped as some kind of machine god messiah. I am impervious to such corrupting ambitions." He is playing the game to get humanity back up to speed, and even beyond. Unlike the Legion, he doesn't have to take the more radical or destructive path to achieve his goal. Unlike the NCR, he is not simply expanding his power mindlessly while following old world ideals they will never truly represent.

    And no one is more capable than him to do that. Even in the pre-war world, he was one of Earth's most brilliant minds, achieving success at everything he did. He has access to a massive amount of knowledge that has been otherwise lost to the rest of the wasteland. There are no forces that can threat him or Vegas: his army of Securitrons is legitimately one of the most powerful militaries of the country, and the few armies that could beat him in an invasion, such as the NCR, cannot due that due to House's tactful diplomacy and resource management. Just thinking of House's personality makes it easy to see why the Independent endings would be such a failure - what makes a Courier in any way more qualified to run this show than Robert House? The best education the wasteland can offer doesn't come close of 1% of what House has, as a MIT graduate and former head of one of the world's largest technology corporations. Morals? House has no selfish goals and is basically uncorruptible. And you can have 10 INT, Big MT enhancements and whatever else you may acquire, you still won't come close to being a certified genius like House is.

    House calculated the war before it happened. House saved Vegas. House made a plan that completely outclassed every other faction on the Mojave. And House will lead the way to the future.
    Last edited by Stone Cold Robert House; 01-02-2016 at 10:36 PM.
    I stroll into the ruins of Las Vegas Ė the biggest piece of crap Iíve ever seen. I broke in at a company called RobCo Industries. Home of the world famous Securitrons! Everybody who was anybody set foot in RobCo. For the last 200 years, all youíve heard about anywhere in the wasteland is Las Vegas. 2274, I roll in. You got the Chairmen. You got the White Gloves. You got the Omertas. You got the NCR, you got the soldiers at McCarran, you got the Legion, you got Caesar Ė whatever the hell his name is! You got a bunch of damn misfits, running around thinking that they can actually control the wasteland. All Iíve seen in Vegas is a bunch of tribalist crap and thatís exactly what Iíll call it Ďcos thatís exactly what it is... Robert House is here to build New Vegas. Itís what I do best. Itís what I do better than anyone in the world.

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    Mr House has grand dreams, an inflated world view and little interest in anything but the grand cause, which amounts to nothing but keeping New Vegas prosperous. He has no plan for the Human race, no matter how much he claims he has. He cares little for the various factions outside of his wonderful little city and has show again and again that he can't give a crap if the Mojave is burning to the ground as long as it doesn't harm his precious little city.

    Powder gangs causing crap in Goodsprings and Primm? What's that? Boomers blowing shit around there territory up? Ehh fuck that. Kings are trying to make Freeside better? Hell no! Mr House is a genius, a brilliant leader and diplomat but he doesn't care. How can he lead Humanity to triumph if he cares for nothing but New Vegas? Not even Freeside really matters to him! Until he starts changing things and doing shit that's not cleaning up his beloved city and collecting taxes he is a hopeless dream for Humanity.

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    Sure, but House also didn't have the army to take care of shit outside of New Vegas. I'm willing to bet once he took over he would bring some law and order to the Mojave, if only by creating alliances with other factions and using them to keep things under control. House really is the best option long term because the NCR are woefully overextended.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TorontRayne View Post
    Sure, but House also didn't have the army to take care of shit outside of New Vegas. I'm willing to bet once he took over he would bring some law and order to the Mojave, if only by creating alliances with other factions and using them to keep things under control. House really is the best option long term because the NCR are woefully overextended.
    The NCR suck, but I think the Legion could work, or even the Courier.

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    [QUOTE=Dr Fallout;4112740]
    Quote Originally Posted by TorontRayne View Post
    or even the Courier.
    My Courier is a functioning drug addict and womanizer so yeah perfect for head of state.

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    [QUOTE=Spacemunkey;4112752]
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Fallout View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TorontRayne View Post
    or even the Courier.
    My Courier is a functioning drug addict and womanizer so yeah perfect for head of state.
    Hey it depends. Mine could do it hands down.

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    But it is stated in endings that independant. ending create "anarchic Mojave" no matter what.
    "Though the Wasteland became anarchic after Hoover Dam, the Boomers' display of power dissuaded fortune seekers from attempting to penetrate Nellis."

    Then BoS ending state something similar.
    "
    With no organized opposition, their patrols began monitoring trade along I-15 and Highway 95, seizing any items of technology they deemed inappropriate."

    Same for Fiends:
    Inde ending:
    The Fiends attacked Camp McCarran during the Second Battle of Hoover Dam and, despite suffering heavy losses, overran it. They continued to be a nuisance throughout Outer Vegas, but never established full control over the area.

    Compare it to House ending:

    House ending: The Fiends attacked Camp McCarran during the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, but the NCR repulsed the attack with minimal losses. When Mr. House asserted control over Outer Vegas, his Securitrons eradicated the remaining Fiends entirely.

    "
    Mr. House showed little interest on the Boomers, who eventually began venturing out of Nellis to meet and trade with travelers."

    Courier can only make Vegas shine, but not Mojave. So when it comes to having better civilisation in Mojave, House will be always over Courier.

    Powder gangs causing crap in Goodsprings and Primm?
    House - After Mr. House gained control of New Vegas, he sent a Securitron to Goodsprings as a token of appreciation for helping the Courier. Victor was a mixed blessing, however, as he continually monitored the town for Mr. House.

    Kings are trying to make Freeside better? Hell no! Mr House is a genius
    House - During the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, some Kings took it upon themselves to launch several attacks on NCR citizens and soldiers around Freeside. Mr. House looked on these actions favorably, seeing them as proof of The Kings' loyalty to New Vegas, and decided to leave them alone.

    So don't lie.
    For just Mojave - House is best option.


    Last edited by Languorous_Maiar; 01-03-2016 at 02:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Fallout View Post
    Legion victory and domination. No more bandits, no more drugs and no more freedom.
    Really? Pillaging every town from east to west, total control, anyone who doesn't believe in Caesar's power is killed, all of the potential of Securitrons and Vegas wasted by group who doesn't use tech? I don't think so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Languorous_Maiar View Post
    But it is stated in endings that independent. ending create "anarchic Mojave" no matter what.
    I always pictured an independent ending turning the strip into that scene from Back to the Future 2 around Biffs casino. I hosestly feel the best ending for me was overall NCR while making as many independent choices in little places; Primm, Westside, Freeside etc. NCR is the only system of government in the game that has any kind of checks and balances, and while NCR may have corruption in it's higher ups they can be replaced. House and The Legion are dictatorships, and while one may have benevolent intentions his lack of anything other than a final solution towards the BOS shows that he's doing things his way and only his way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Languorous_Maiar View Post
    But it is stated in endings that independant. ending create "anarchic Mojave" no matter what.
    "Though the Wasteland became anarchic after Hoover Dam, the Boomers' display of power dissuaded fortune seekers from attempting to penetrate Nellis."

    Then BoS ending state something similar.
    "
    With no organized opposition, their patrols began monitoring trade along I-15 and Highway 95, seizing any items of technology they deemed inappropriate."

    Same for Fiends:
    Inde ending:
    The Fiends attacked Camp McCarran during the Second Battle of Hoover Dam and, despite suffering heavy losses, overran it. They continued to be a nuisance throughout Outer Vegas, but never established full control over the area.

    Compare it to House ending:

    House ending: The Fiends attacked Camp McCarran during the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, but the NCR repulsed the attack with minimal losses. When Mr. House asserted control over Outer Vegas, his Securitrons eradicated the remaining Fiends entirely.

    "
    Mr. House showed little interest on the Boomers, who eventually began venturing out of Nellis to meet and trade with travelers."

    Courier can only make Vegas shine, but not Mojave. So when it comes to having better civilisation in Mojave, House will be always over Courier.

    Powder gangs causing crap in Goodsprings and Primm?
    House - After Mr. House gained control of New Vegas, he sent a Securitron to Goodsprings as a token of appreciation for helping the Courier. Victor was a mixed blessing, however, as he continually monitored the town for Mr. House.

    Kings are trying to make Freeside better? Hell no! Mr House is a genius
    House - During the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, some Kings took it upon themselves to launch several attacks on NCR citizens and soldiers around Freeside. Mr. House looked on these actions favorably, seeing them as proof of The Kings' loyalty to New Vegas, and decided to leave them alone.

    So don't lie.
    For just Mojave - House is best option.


    Wow so very selective here. You chose several endings that supported your view and fuck all the rest. Great job! You're forgetting the fact that Mr House would destroy the Kings if they made peace with the NCR and started helping everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone Cold Robert House View Post
    Easy, it's Mr. House. Why? First, he's the only person with an actual, solid plan. He knows exactly where he wants to get, even if it takes a really long time, and has a complete understanding of what he needs to get there. He doesn't seek power or prestige for himself - "I have no interest in abusing others, just as I have no interest in legislating or otherwise dictating what people do in their private time. Nor have I any interest in being worshiped as some kind of machine god messiah. I am impervious to such corrupting ambitions." He is playing the game to get humanity back up to speed, and even beyond. Unlike the Legion, he doesn't have to take the more radical or destructive path to achieve his goal. Unlike the NCR, he is not simply expanding his power mindlessly while following old world ideals they will never truly represent.
    I ruled House out simply because he says his judgment is what will restrain the abuses of his autocracy. To which I reply, "Not good enough."
    This is the man who filled Vault 21 with concrete simply because it was in his way and then killed the Kings if you happened to have brokered a truce between them and the NCR, simply because he hates the NCR. And I also have a problem with killing the Brotherhood simply because they're in the way.

    While House says he's a certified genius, but those aren't uncommon in Fallout either. He talks a good game, but he reminds me uncomfortably of a robber baron or a Wall Street shark in his smug and contemptuous disregard for wastelanders and his actions match his attitude. Remember that he's a casino baron and his name even represents that. His entire model of business is exploitation and I think it's very deliberate that he echoes the kind of Ayn Rand libertarian that thinks its wealth shows its moral and intellectual superiority.

    He isn't needed. The technologies he offers is something that people will figure out on their own anyway eventually, even if it takes a little longer. And that is the best thing he has to offer. With a little careful direction and incentive, factions like the Apocalypse, OSI, Brotherhood and the Big MT can be directed in useful avenues of science. And the NCR is already pouring concrete for fortifications at Hoover, so, in theory, there's nothing keeping them from reinventing the wheel on all the civil engineering junk that House is capable of offering.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Fallout View Post
    The NCR suck, but I think the Legion could work, or even the Courier.
    I'm surprised anybody advocates Legion too. They're tyrants, slavers, Luddites and misogynists. The lasting cultural damage that Legion supremacy can have is unfathomable. Nothing Caesar says can justify that. Once he dies, nobody will have his vision and will go "Oops, Caesar just instituted our entire culture and quasi-religion for pragmatic Machiavellian reasons. Maybe we shouldn't treat women like chattel anymore." What you have is the Legate Lanius. And an entire corps of officers who can't separate the myth from the man that is Caesar.

    Nor am I going to take Caesar's word that something better will come out of a so-called Hegelian dialectic just because he theorizes that it should from his high chair. The problems with the NCR and Legion are explicable to any rational person. Just mashing them against each other and hoping that'll fix everything is stupid.
    Last edited by DVL; 01-03-2016 at 11:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Fallout View Post
    Wow so very selective here. You chose several endings that supported your view and fuck all the rest. Great job! You're forgetting the fact that Mr House would destroy the Kings if they made peace with the NCR and started helping everyone.
    The perfect politician, then?
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    Ideal ending for me?
    A Mojave Republic with an independent government and national identity. It has cordial diplomatic, trade and military relations with the NCR. An anarchic ending isn't sufficient and the only way to fend off NCR corruption and Legion conquest is to actually be a geopolitical power in its own right.
    The estate of House is divvied up in trustworthy hands. Boomer artillery tech is the backbone of a new military. The Followers are the predominant medical/technology/education faction of the Mojave, simply because all its competitors are no longer a threat.

    If you consider the high technology of Old World Blues and Dead Money to be realistic possibilities, then you use the technologies found in those to help build a new nation.
    Elijah all but lays out a road map for you. If you can scale-up Sierra Madre vending machines to the factory level, then it might be useful for building an economic powerhouse, although weaponized holograms and cloud is a bit too morbid for my tastes. Helios One can be expanded for energy needs.

    Keep the Think Tank occupied on some useful avenue of science. Since Courier can persuade them into cooperation you can just about dump any new shiny new toy in front of them and have them do R&D on it. They want to study the Mojave? Well okay, you can bring it to them. That's an insanely good offer. Here's a Mirelurk to dissect. While you're at it, would you guys care to scale up that agricultural doohickey you got upstairs?

    Brotherhood can probably be bribed with the various unique energy weapons you find laying around and kept busy chasing and disarming nuclear arsenals, since that's probably a big hot-button issue for those guys. (They react favorably to you if you choose not to nuke anything in Lonesome Road.)
    Last edited by DVL; 01-03-2016 at 11:10 PM.

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    Let me explain why I would choose the Legion. As implied by the game they provide peace and prosperity, while making a militant and technologically limited faction, however why do they need technology if there is no one to use them? Basically, they're main philosophy is how can an enemy fight when he's dead? That actually explains a lot of their actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Fallout View Post
    Let me explain why I would choose the Legion. As implied by the game they provide peace and prosperity, while making a militant and technologically limited faction, however why do they need technology if there is no one to use them? Basically, they're main philosophy is how can an enemy fight when he's dead? That actually explains a lot of their actions.
    People come under the impression that the Legion would restore Vegas into a spiritual successor to the Western Roman Empire, with the remains of Vegas urban regions becoming great buildings for the Legion, and that their savage and misogynistic nature would fade out over time. I believe they would just fail to maintain any semblance of civilisation, and the Mojave would eventually break down under their control, becoming nothing but a burning wasteland full of tribes and fiends whittling away at each other.

    Caesar's ideas were good in theory, but in the long run and in practice, it's unrealistic to expect that the Legion, a collection of tribes ran by their basest instincts and a fanatical devotion, would be able to run a functional, autocratic, and powerful empire.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZigzagPX4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Fallout View Post
    Let me explain why I would choose the Legion. As implied by the game they provide peace and prosperity, while making a militant and technologically limited faction, however why do they need technology if there is no one to use them? Basically, they're main philosophy is how can an enemy fight when he's dead? That actually explains a lot of their actions.
    People come under the impression that the Legion would restore Vegas into a spiritual successor to the Western Roman Empire, with the remains of Vegas urban regions becoming great buildings for the Legion, and that their savage and misogynistic nature would fade out over time. I believe they would just fail to maintain any semblance of civilisation, and the Mojave would eventually break down under their control, becoming nothing but a burning wasteland full of tribes and fiends whittling away at each other.

    Caesar's ideas were good in theory, but in the long run and in practice, it's unrealistic to expect that the Legion, a collection of tribes ran by their basest instincts and a fanatical devotion, would be able to run a functional, autocratic, and powerful empire.
    Actually that's more of an assumption, due to the fact that Caesar's methods, WORK. They worked with Genghis Khan, who by using brutality and conquest was able to make a massive Empire, that was actually quite civilized. However like both empires, they had/have the very real fear that when the leader dies, his empire dies with him. Until then though, a large single culture and peaceful Legion empire is entirely possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZigzagPX4 View Post
    Is it possible to achieve a "happy ending" for everyone?
    No. This is the greatest strength of the main storyline - it forces you to make trade offs and assess what your greatest value is - stability? Freedom? Democracy? Technology? Personal wealth?

    It also lets you come up with a nuanced answer to this question - one could support any of the major factions, or independence, and justify it by appealing to any of the above values. It makes you question what those words actually mean: Which faction really offers the most stability? The most freedom? What really constitutes freedom anyway? Is the NCR truly a democracy? Will Mr. House actually be able to accomplish his goals, and will doing so actually improve the lives of the average wastelander? Could the Legion possibly transition into a more open, tolerant society once it settles down? From which faction do I stand the most to gain from, on a personal level? Different players and their characters are going to answer these questions differently.

    I've roleplayed all kinds of characters, taking very different paths - among them, a sadistic NCR patriot with Very Evil karma, an amoral mercenary working for the Legion, a starry eyed tech scavenger who sided with Mr. House, and a bumbling idiot who wound up destroying every faction and blowing up Hoover Dam itself through sheer dumb luck, leaving only Vegas itself intact. For each of these playthroughs, I imagined how these characters would justify their decisions.

    In my own opinion, the best option is for Independent Vegas, with self-policing robots. The Legion would be vanquished (ideally with Caesar dead), the NCR bruised and humiliated (Oliver, Kimball and Hanlon left alive), and the smaller factions either negotiated with peacefully (the Followers, the Khans, the Kings, the Three Families) or put out of their misery (the BoS, the Fiends).

    This is far from utopia - without a centralized power structure, the ambient level of chaos, uncertainty, and violence remains high. But in my opinion this is better than cementing the power of a totalitarian empire (Legion), a corrupt oligarchy with a thin veneer of democracy (NCR), or a grandiose, delusional autocrat (House). It's better to ensure that nobody has power, rather than giving it to those who will only abuse it and oppress others. Perhaps in time, a real society can coalesce in the Mojave, and since I've eradicated the most violent gangs, I think there's a better chance of that happening.

    Of course, the interesting thing about Independence is that it could really go any number of ways. The vision I outlined above is just one possible version of independence; for example, you could argue that as long as the Dam is standing, some up and coming power is always going to want to invade Vegas, and so the best way to ensure long term peace is to destroy it, along with the Securitrons...but of course this will also greatly set back the potential level of development in the region.

    You could also view "independence" as actually meaning that the Courier becomes the sole ruler of Vegas, and depending on what kind of character you are, maybe he/she is even worse than any of the other factions. One my favorite playthroughs was as a hardened criminal who hated the NCR; he sided with the Legion up until the very end when he turned the tables on them and used the Securitrons to take over everything, becoming a warlord who rules Vegas with an iron fist. He had successfully managed to ensure the deaths of both Kimball and Caesar, leaving the two largest factions without leaders.
    Last edited by Kilgore Trout; 01-08-2016 at 12:09 AM.
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